tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post3303139752213656443..comments2023-09-20T10:13:14.473+02:00Comments on Drinking! Not studying.: Misrepresentations of alternatives in the mediaShannon Rutherfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16181513036176083564noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-67002063356211121712013-10-30T13:25:06.275+01:002013-10-30T13:25:06.275+01:00>being a favorite by most in the 80s goth/alter...>being a favorite by most in the 80s goth/alternative scene and being played in alternative/goth clubs back in the 80s does give them ties to the Goth scene. <br /><br />They might give them ties, but the truth is that their music is different from the classically labeled "gothic music". Goths nowadays like, say, the Dresden Dolls, but would you say the Dresden Dolls are a gothic rock group? I wouldn't :).<br /><br />>Oh puh-lease<br /><br />Ok, if you want to comment in my blog, you're going to need to avoid such a patronizing attitude. We can discuss without being condescendent to each other.<br />That said, gothic does not solely revolve around aesthetics; actually, the main point of the subculture was actually the music. Goths gathered in clubs, not in stores. So the sound *is* a very important part of the definition; I'd say the most important one.Shannon Rutherfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16181513036176083564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-52484839689776120272013-10-30T03:36:21.019+01:002013-10-30T03:36:21.019+01:00"Uhm, I like the Smiths too. That doesn't..."Uhm, I like the Smiths too. That doesn't mean I should force them into a category they don't belong to."<br /><br />Of course that's true if we're only talking about you liking them. However, being a favorite by most in the 80s goth/alternative scene and being played in alternative/goth clubs back in the 80s does give them ties to the Goth scene. And, therefore, it does give them rights to the Goth title (I use alternative and goth interchangeably because the true definition of Goth is synonymous with the definition of alternative).<br /><br />"Gothic rock was a precise music genre and the Smiths' music has nothing to do with it, in terms of sound."<br /><br />Oh puh-lease, the legitimacy of Goth actually being a genre has been debated by pretty much everyone for the last 33 years. Anyway, there isn't an actual "goth sound". Gothic is an aesthetic and in certain genres there are bands who evoke this aesthetic. The Goth/Alternative subculture is a giant umbrella encapsulating all of these bands.<br /><br />As poignantly illustrated by Mitch Clem:<br /><br />http://i44.tinypic.com/2nu0dtw.jpg<br /><br /><br />"Goth" is only precise when people want to distance something from the goth subculture that would potentially give it bad press (i.e. Marilyn Manson). But like I said in previous time people didn't genre nitpicking like people do now. Alternative kids in the 80s listened to everything from Einstürzende Neubauten to Cabaret Voltaire to Klaus Nomi to The Cure. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-50014554239400537052013-10-26T00:05:49.742+02:002013-10-26T00:05:49.742+02:00Uhm, I like the Smiths too. That doesn't mean ...Uhm, I like the Smiths too. That doesn't mean I should force them into a category they don't belong to. Gothic rock was a precise music genre and the Smiths' music has nothing to do with it, in terms of sound.Shannon Rutherfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16181513036176083564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-77574148452488453422013-10-22T05:31:44.215+02:002013-10-22T05:31:44.215+02:00"the Smiths do not belong to the goth subcult..."the Smiths do not belong to the goth subculture "<br /><br />Actually, they do. All the Goths I know in the 40 and up crowd (as in the one's who were teens in the late 70s and 80s) LOVE The Smiths. And, have done so since they were preteens. Some even were turned on to the band because they heard it played at their local alternative night. There wasn't a whole lot of genre nitpicking back then (unlike now). So, basically, what people now are mislabeling as "goth music" actually just was the dark alternative music of the 80s. The reason no one can really pin down the definition of Goth is because Goth as people define it today never existed. But, Alternative has existed for sometime and has only added more layers to itself since it's fledgling days in the 50s (ever heard of the Beatniks?). Goth simply was a term used by lazy music journalists in order to pigeonhole the amorphic alternative scene of the time (and therefore was able to create themselves a cash cow). The alternative crowd at the time loathed the term and vehemently rejected it (along with other equally as silly terms such as "positive punks" and "new wavers"). It's funny to see how things have changed. Honestly, I think the wide usage of the term goth instead of alternative really ruined things.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-51529739375212672922013-08-12T14:58:53.199+02:002013-08-12T14:58:53.199+02:00No problem ^^
Yeah, that's it, most of the tim...No problem ^^<br />Yeah, that's it, most of the times it's just lazy writing: how can we let the audience understand that this kid is troubled, as quickly as possible? Ok, black clothes and heavy make-up sound like a good idea!<br />Puh-lease.<br />Thank you for reading this "article" and commenting it ^^ and don't worry about your mistake, I'm not a native speaker of English either and I'm sure I've made a lot myself XDShannon Rutherfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16181513036176083564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-89242387824230126372013-08-11T23:32:44.848+02:002013-08-11T23:32:44.848+02:00Hum sorry, I should have thought of this this of c...Hum sorry, I should have thought of this this of course, that's a good reason not to speak or her :)<br />Actually she doesn't really have this negative connotation, she appears more as an intelligent and curious, cultured girl for her age, but she's definitely introvert, has some "depressed" moments, and all those aspects they usually associate with an alternative look. Guess that's hard to avoid this in a tv show as they just want to make us understand quite quickly who is a character. Anyway, your article is interesting, even if there are a lot of characters you're speaking about that I don"t know.<br /><br />(also, sorry for my mistakes, english isn't my mother tongue!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-15104586165429932382013-08-11T15:53:00.320+02:002013-08-11T15:53:00.320+02:00Well, of course you have met alternatives who have...Well, of course you have met alternatives who have some issues, but that's because who doesn't have some :)? What I mean is that one shouldn't automatically *assume* that they're dressing like that because of those issues.<br /><br />:D I've loved Orphan Black, I can't wait for next season. I was so glad to find a show where the protagonist was such a badass woman, who could get by on her own without a man's help and who had the strength to handle her own troubles, and never gave up.<br />Also, Tatiana Maslany is outstanding. You couldn't even tell that behind those different characters there was always the same person.Shannon Rutherfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16181513036176083564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-74288557457892209762013-08-11T14:36:56.835+02:002013-08-11T14:36:56.835+02:00I totally agree with the "phase" thing. ...I totally agree with the "phase" thing. In many cases people are forced to change their look when getting a job where any "subculture" look (or even just a different look than the mainstream) is not accepted. This makes people think that these styles are something one "grows out of", something only teenagers do.<br /><br />When it comes to issues though, I can't think of one single person I have met who has a "subculture" look who doesn't have some issue or diagnosis (myself included). That is not saying that mainstream people don't have issues - they do too. But "issues" is a problematic concept in itself. Many "issues" according to society's standards are the healthier alternative according to me :)<br /><br />Lastly - I'm glad to meet a fellow lover of 'Orphan Black'!Ms Misantropiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03200076221996543289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-86798434028367755902013-08-11T00:55:57.635+02:002013-08-11T00:55:57.635+02:00Hi again :)
Well, maybe that didn't show from ...Hi again :)<br />Well, maybe that didn't show from my analysis (which was strictly concerned over the representation of alternatives, not on the whole shows ^^) but I happen to *adore* <i>Orphan Black</i> :D and Sarah's also my favourite character in the show, so XD<br />By the way, what you said about the choice of clothes and the presence of issues in a kid might not always be true; like, I love my style because I find it aesthetically agreeable, but I'm not trying to convey any messages, let alone to communicate my issues, supposing I had any XD.<br />You know, I've seen a lot of alternatives pointing out that their choice of clothing is nothing but that: a choice of clothing, and that they find it condescending that people just assume that they do it because they have "troubles fitting in" or such stuff. It might be true in some cases, but that's because, well, issues are things that happen in life to everyone, including alternatives; aside from those cases, there's this stereotype about us that's starting to really annoy me.<br />Also, that thing about the "phase" bothers me to no end, 'cause many of us do not get tired of our style as we grow older; to suggest that goth and punk and grunge or anything else are ok for kids and not ok for adults is just another prejudice and I'm kind of tired of prejudice against us ^^''.Shannon Rutherfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16181513036176083564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-10844253544570590002013-08-11T00:48:09.042+02:002013-08-11T00:48:09.042+02:00Oh, no, that's not it ^^ actually this isn'...Oh, no, that's not it ^^ actually this isn't a selection; I was just talking about the alternative characters from the shows I've watched, and I've never watched Californication, so I have no clue who this Rebecca girl might be :O. <br />Do you reckon she may have this negative connotation that I've detected in the shows above? :)Shannon Rutherfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16181513036176083564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-88458291361256502502013-08-10T19:08:26.495+02:002013-08-10T19:08:26.495+02:00I'm sorry if I sounded aggressive, it was not ...I'm sorry if I sounded aggressive, it was not my intention. When you reach 36 years of age, emoticons start to loose their meaning, and emphasis is difficult to accomplish in text. I apologize.<br /><br />That being said, I still disagree with your narrow analysis of some of these characters. I happen to love 'Orphan Black' and have written an article about the show. And it's just honest psychology that people who seek out different alternatives in clothing, music and presentation are often the same ones who don't always feel like they fit in, and the ones with honest issues.<br /><br />And lastly; Sarah (and some other clones) spent many episodes trying to pass as one of the other clones (most often as Alison) to fool someone. Styling herself in between would have been a waste of time at best, and getting in the way at worst.<br /><br />And this is for you: :)Ms Misantropiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03200076221996543289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-39527088503443463622013-08-10T16:20:02.706+02:002013-08-10T16:20:02.706+02:00Yuu could have spoken of rebecca from Californicat...Yuu could have spoken of rebecca from Californication also! She is quite interesting in this category I think, maybe not "goth" enough for your selection? :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-67410616174883777362013-08-10T12:59:32.091+02:002013-08-10T12:59:32.091+02:00Uhm, first of all, hi, and thank you for commentin...Uhm, first of all, hi, and thank you for commenting.<br /><br />Actually, Sarah at a certain point says "you were the one who introduced me to punk rock" to her foster mum, so yes, she does use a label on herself - a label in which she doesn't seem to really fit, because the authors didn't show a good knowledge of the punk culture.<br />The point is not "having to" perfectly fit into one subculture, I myself don't really like labels and I don't feel like I belong to one single subcultre, much less I feel the need to. The point is bringing up a label because it sounded somehow cool and then showing no knowledge whatsoever of the subculture itself.<br /><br />I think you largely misunderstood what I was trying to say. If I had problems with people "who have issues", my favourite show wouldn't be Neon Genesis Evangelion :°D my problem is with alternatives in media <i>always</i> being the ones who have issues.<br /><br />And finally, my problem with Sarah is not her not having time to change clothes; it's her choosing to wear Beths'. In the first episode, she was wearing a quite edgy outfit; as she took on Beth's identity, she started to let go of her style, as if she was "growing out of it". I mean, she had her old clothes, why didn't she choose to wear them anymore?<br /><br />Aside from that; it seems to me like this analysis has kind of gotten to your nerves XD since you didn't even bother so say hi or use emoticons to tone down your words a little bit - you used capital instead, which in netiquette is basically screaming :) - and you sound kind of aggressive to me; I see no reason for that, since in the end we're talking about characters in a tv show. Characters and tv shows that I loved, just to be clear, so.<br /><br />By the way, thank you for reading and giving me your opinion ^^Shannon Rutherfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16181513036176083564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-56158738526009600252013-08-10T12:46:04.640+02:002013-08-10T12:46:04.640+02:00I admit I did not read all of this post, since I d...I admit I did not read all of this post, since I don't know many of the characters you bring up. But I must say I disagree with the assessment of Sarah Manning from 'Orphan Black'. <br /><br />First - I don't remember her ever labeling herself as anything really (even though other characters in the show sometimes do), and I really don't see the need to either. Why does everyone who happens to dress in black and listen to different music than mainstream have to a) HAVE a label, and b) FIT PERFECTLY into that label? Lord knows I dressed in black and stayed away from mainstream music, but I never felt the need for a label.<br /><br />Secondly - She is a foster child raised by a stern woman in a foreign land. Why is she not allowed to have issues? The entire show is about clones - how untroubled do you expect them to be? And among all the different clones she is arguably (except for Cozima maybe) the one with the least problems.<br /><br />Thirdly - During the last few episodes of the (first) season, Sarah hardly had time to change clothes; Her daughter was in an accident and people were shooting at her, she was running all over the place trying to set things straight. And you are complaining about her not keeping up her goth (your word choice) look..? It is far more realistic her not having time to put on eye-liner or fix her hair.<br />Ms Misantropiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03200076221996543289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-81014031720840537112013-07-20T00:37:57.648+02:002013-07-20T00:37:57.648+02:00This is so true. I remember back in high school a ...This is so true. I remember back in high school a girl spreading the rumour that I had mental problems, while she was the one who was known for faking a faint and falsely accusing a guy for rape, all in order to gain attention. But yeah, I was the one who had problems, because I wore black clothes. Oooook.Shannon Rutherfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16181513036176083564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-89435604228811444832013-07-19T17:43:49.990+02:002013-07-19T17:43:49.990+02:00It's interesting that this stereotype predjudi...It's interesting that this stereotype predjudice goes on and on. Both in real life and on tv. When I read about these teenage caracters I thought of my own teens how I was judged by the way I looked when there were mainstream looking ones that had/were real troubles :Plinnea-mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07378511815400433196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-63675181866591101862013-07-19T01:08:31.742+02:002013-07-19T01:08:31.742+02:00Yeah, well, they didn't really have many "...Yeah, well, they didn't really have many "problems" after all, that's why I couldn't relate either XDShannon Rutherfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16181513036176083564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-75885657424444675932013-07-18T20:11:14.505+02:002013-07-18T20:11:14.505+02:00Yes I watched some episodes but gave it up, I felt...Yes I watched some episodes but gave it up, I felt too old for the show :'D I couldn't relate to their problems.Lesthihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09220038949346011321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-84533499006494735322013-07-18T10:10:12.396+02:002013-07-18T10:10:12.396+02:00Thank you ^^
Did you see "The Carrie Diaries&...Thank you ^^<br />Did you see "The Carrie Diaries"? I so agree with you, she wore clothes that were totally contemporary. Do they really think they sold skull prints in the eighties, or stuff like that...? Goth was really edgy at that time, either you were a goth (which meant combats, corsets, fishnets and REALLY heavy make-up) or you weren't. You'd never have seen outfits like Dorrit's.<br />Aw, yes, Aria was so cute with those pink streaks on her hair <3 but she still wears weird stuff from time to time, one of my favourite things in PLL is looking at Aria's outfits XDShannon Rutherfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16181513036176083564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-656862720440629629.post-71294340508952584922013-07-18T06:48:34.776+02:002013-07-18T06:48:34.776+02:00This was interesting even though I didn't reco...This was interesting even though I didn't recognize all characthers :D<br /><br />I really dont like how they created Dorrit Bradshaw. It's like.. she really just looks like a "baby bat alternative kid" from 2013, not 80-s at all O.o <br /><br />And I miss when Aria dressed more alternative, even though she wasn't truly a goth I really enjoyed some of her outfits in the first season.Lesthihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09220038949346011321noreply@blogger.com